112 Vs Jagged Edge
Junebug: if I were to rank my fav male groups, 112 would be at the bottom somewhere. Besides the "" and maybe like a couple other songs there nothing that I really like from them. I hate that "cupid song", "hot and wet" is garbage, "what if" was garbage and many other songs of theirs also sucked. I feel like that lacked a lot of substance in many of their songs and their harmony (if even they had any) was weak.
The group didnt even have a vocalist in it, or a strong singer like how Dru Hill has Sisqo, Jodeci had K-Ci, BIIM had Wanya, Mint Condition had Stokley etc.
J.E. on the other hand also had their fair share of weak music (especially their newer stuff) but not as much as 112 IMO. The twins alone to me had better voices than the entire 112.
I'm also a "balladeer" and listen for vocals extensively when it comes to R&B music listening, and I feel songs like "Promise" "I Gotta Be" "He Can't Love You" "Walked Outta Heaven" "Lets Get Married" "Goodbye" etc. separate Jagged Edge from 112.
What are your favorite 112 songs ilikeit? Just asking since I dont really like much of their songs and you mentioned they have more better songs.
Ilikeit: If it's a debate you want Junebug then it's a debate you will get. If you say a group is garbage then I think you need to artiulate why. But since you did not I will tell you why they are not and why I like 112. First and foremost both groups are mimicking the style of New Edition and I donn't blame them because New Edition is my favorite male group of all time growing up. So since they both mimick New Edition I have to go with the group that's doing New Edition better. And that's 112. Let's start with you said the twins had better voices than the entire 112 group.
How's this for you every member has a solo project:
2008: Real talk by Q.Parker
2008: Love's crazy by Slim
2008: Who I am by Daron Jones
2008: Michael Keith by Michael Keith
How's that for bad voices every member to be signed to a solo project. That's unheard of in the music biz. We can't say the same for the members of Jagged.
Second you say Jagged had more hits or better songs. Jagged had 5-single in the top 10 r&b charts and 3-single in the hot 100. Compared to 112's 2-singles in the top 10 in r&b charts and None in hot 100. Unfornately those numbers didn't help Jagged with sales like it did 112.
They had Gold, 2xPlat, Plat, Gold, Gold, Gold, and 146,600.
112's mere chart numbers gave them a mind blowing album sales of 16+ million world wide. Know that that's out the way let's move on the the cash because tour's put cash in the artist pockets. Try criss crossing the U.S with Keith Sweat and New Edition and Puff Daddy over a grueling 18 month period. And you say the group didn't even have a vocalist or strong singer like Dru Hill,Jodeci, or BIIM. Neither one of those groups sang for 18 months that's strong singing my friend check the facts after that the group toured with bigger names like Whitney and Janet that's serious.But back to the question what 112 songs do I like. I will say this I like groups that make music for me not the radio. While you listen for hits I listen to music that creates stories in the album. I listen to the entire album good and bad because life is full of good and bad. My favorite 112 songs are the 112album and 112 part 3 because it represents a story to me. Oh and 112 has a grammy if you're into awards.
Junebug: Wow ilikeit. Very good thoughts... you brought up some good points. I do agree that 112 is mimicking New Edition with their uptempo "goody two-show" songs with mini dance moves and stuff, but Jagged Edge tho? They are more kinda mimicking Jodeci in a way their style is portrayed with a slight bad boy image, baggy clothing (after the first album, just a little bit cleaner and less sleazier than how Jodeci did it. As far as the sales, or awards go, I don't really care about that, that's the last thing on my mind. I just care about the music and how it sounds. I mean J.E. did sell more records and had more successful records in the U.S. than 112 (not sure about WW sales), and more hit records, won a couple of soul train awards for their own songs (not tribute songs by a guy cashing of his boys death, that they were just singing on the hook on), but as I said that is the last thing on my mind.
To me, Quality >>>> Quantity. And even if 112 members are going to do solo projects themselves, that really doesn't mean that they have strong voices to sing. I can't blame em though, Jagged Edge is still on So So Def/Island Def Jam while 112 got they asses dropped from their major record label which I believe is Def Jam :). I mean Cassie had a solo album. Bobby Valentino had a solo album, Even Dalvin from Jodeci had a solo album and he can barely sing, so that right there doesn't prove anything. Not saying that 112 is totally wack and cant sing whatsoever, I just think that they are weak at what they do for the most part. I guess Jagged Edge doesn't want to do the solo thing cause they wanna stay together, have great chemistry and they are a group, not solo artists. Look what to what happened to Dru Hill after Sisqo did a solo joint, B2K after Omarion solo? Get my point. Honestly I really don't think people are checking for solo albums from back-up singers from 112. It may sound good to some people, but nobody will be checking for it for the most part.
The part where I was asking what songs you like fromt hem didnt really refer to whether it was a single or an album cut or songs released on singles like rare remixes and b-sides. If I havent heard 112's albums then I really cant say that I dont like them. But since I did, I can. I have heard all of their albums except the most recent one in 2005, which I skimmed through and didnt like. I only mentioned the singles mainly because thats what everybody hears and I wasnt sure if you were like me and listen to full albums/discographies and not just singles like other folk. (i.e. Promise, "Where they party at"). I was kinda saying that they got away with releasing more uptempo joints where they could hide their vocals and not show it on ballads, that also another reason why I mentioned the ballads singles by J.E..
Take BBD for example, They were nice they dropped 'poison' 'do me' 'dope' 'gangsta' and other uptempo's. we all know thy were the 3 least best singers in the group (they were okay at best) thats why Jimmy jam and terry lewis had the idea of putting them together, while johnny's voice was good enough to go solo like Ralph and Bobby did, knowing that bell bivins or devoe cant do a solo thang with success. they did drop a ballad here and there like when 'will I see you smile again' which was nice but the point is look what happened after new jack swing faded out...they did too! johnny gill who was able to continue and put out those dark sounding ballads with strong vocals was able to do so in the mid 90's and his album went gold. Poison album was all new jack which were all their chart topping hits. To me, if an artist don't got good vocals, or dont make good ballads, I really dont check for them like that. Afer all, R&B is Rhythm and Blues. I dont wanna just hear rhythm, sing me the blues!
I have heard Jagged Edge albums too, and they are not really too great either, but i'd still put them over 112. I have over 820+ albums in my collection. My 160 GB ipod is almost full by the way, with all my albums, some movies and my favorite music videos/tv shows are on it. A large portion of my albums (at least 300 of them are R&B albums from the late 80's to present. I have albums/discographies from Donell Jones, to Styles P., to Freddie Jackson, Ghostface Killah, to Donny Hathaway, to The Ohio Players, to Parliament-Funkadelic, to Johnny Gill to whoever. I listen to a lot of albums 24/7/365, and trust me I have heard 112's. I had borrowed them from friends/downloaded some and either gave them back/deleted them after not liking what I heard and kept only the tracks that I liked which was very few. And guess what this is not recently, this is when the albums actually came like Part 3 in 2001 or Room 112 in 98. I have been a R&B fan forever and grew up heavily on it.
Singles are not even my thang really, album cut ballads are my thing, especially other rare tracks which showcase what they group can do, and not just what the record label picks to be put on tv/radio. The best 112 album is the first one which is just "ehh...okay" to me and the rest I ain't feeling.
J.E. did have FIVE Billboard album 200 top 10 albums, more US sales even if they did come out after 112 did, but again they really doesn't mean anything. Cause we all know groups like Guy, Mint Condition and Tony Tone Toni who didn't have that success, all sh*t on 112/Jagged Edge. To tell you the truth, I really don't like any of these groups like that, but if I had to pick on its J.E. off the straight of their versatility in making songs, vocals, and overall sounding songs. I have all the Jodeci albums, New Edition, Boyz II Men, Dru, Silk, After 7, Intro, Mint Condition, but did not keep the JE or 112 albums after getting them. I do have some singles and album cuts that I thought were nice from the albums of each group tho.
So again I ask, which songs of 112 do you like any specific titles? And please don't just name singles since we are on the same page now.
Ilikeit: You make very good points Junebug,but you missed my key points. It takes strong vocals to tour 18 months. Whitney Houston is not going to open her tour with a wack group that's her money on the line. Janet Jackson is not going to open her tour with a wack group that's her money on the line as well. And once again it's not a partiular song or track that I like it's the entire 1st album and 3rd album in it's entire context that I like. If people take the time to listen the 1st and 3rd album tells a story. So that means I like everything on the 1st and 3rd album. And At the end of the day we got the same music in our library and that's too funny. LOL Sounds like we like the same thing. ha ha
Junebug: Actually it really doesn't take strong vocals to tour 18 months. Some of the biggest acts in the early 90's such as Milli Vanilli and Color Me Badd went on huge tours for long periods of time and we all know their vocals weren't really all that. Same in the rap world like MC Hammer & Vanilla Ice. They had a lot of popular songs that appealed to the public that were also catchy, so hey if they can do, just about any group can. Not saying that 112 is some type of 'wackness' like Milli Vanilli or CMB (112 is obviously better), but I'm just stating that the fact that you don't have to be the best singer or rapper to go on tour and open up for a bigger act. you just gotta be "popping" or "hot" in the mainstream or towards the general public. And I never said they were totally wack, I said "borderline-wack" LOL. Meaning that they just passed (like I'd give them a D or D+) for what they have done in their career from 1996-2008.
If 112's 'Only You', 'Cupid', 'Your Letter' are getting a lot of radio play, and the general public are requesting it on radio/tv etc., then of course she is gonna put them on her tour, she doesn't care if 112 is good vocally. If they are doing good commercially, then she of course is gonna invite them since its gonna make her some money. Whatever makes her more money is what she will go by, not who sounds better to her for her tour.
As far as their albums go, I know exactly what you mean when you say they tell a story. I get what what your saying but I just don't feel them for the most part beside a couple songs. So I guess we do have the same (or similar) taste in R&B music at the end of the day.
Now it's your turn! To help you choose:
112's It's Over Now:
Jagged Edge's I Gotta Be: